Julie’s Pivot Into Podcasting

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome back to Plan Like a Boss. I'm your host, Tanya Lawson, and I'm here today with Dr. Julie Marty Pearson. Julie is a podcasting mentor who empowers mission-driven women to share their stories through podcasting. Julie, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to have you here today. Let's start with telling us your story. How did you get into the podcasting space?

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Yeah, so that started back in 2020. I had left my last job in 2019 for health reasons. So when the pandemic hit, I was not working. I didn't have a job. And at that point, I had been working for almost 20 years in higher education. And so I couldn't really get a job because all the schools were closed. I had already been thinking about what's next because the couple years before that, a lot had happened. I'd been having health issues, my dad passed away, just all the things. And in that world, I used to commute to jobs. So it was very exhausting and stressful. So during COVID, I decided to finally start my own coaching business, which is something I always wanted to do. And so then, of course, I took being a good student, I took all the courses about business and how to run a business. And one of those courses was podcasting. And so at the time I was doing career coaching, but I never really went anywhere with a career coaching podcast. And I realized that just because I wasn't excited or passionate about talking about resumes and cover letters on a podcast. So I decided to just try it for fun and see if I like it. So I started one about pets, which is something I love animals, I love pets. They're a huge part of my life, always have been. I thought, well, that's something I could talk about any day of the week. Let's try this out. So I started the story of my pet um in 2021. You know, it was just for fun talking to people about their pets, but then people started listening, people started asking to be on it. So that's kind of where the beginning of podcasting was for me. And it's definitely been a journey. I would have never believed that I would be where I am now. But, you know, something about podcasting really connected for me and really made me excited again. So that's kind of where the journey started.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

That's I love that. I love that. And I was, I was spying on you on the internet, lurking a little bit, and I saw that you have your doctorate in organizational psychology, which by the way, I had to look that up. I had no idea what that was. It it was it was a really interesting field. And how has that helped you along your podcasting journey? Because I would imagine it might have been beneficial.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Absolutely. So I have been in psychology since

Psychology Skills For Great Interviews

SPEAKER_00 2:39

undergrad, took psych intro to psychology and fell in love. And so during my education, including my doctorate, you know, I learned I was taught a lot of skills like how to conduct interviews, how to facilitate focus groups, how to paraphrase and listen to what people are saying and reframe it for them. A lot of those skills come in very handy as a podcaster because honestly, I don't really have to think much when I'm interviewing people. It's kind of natural for me. And interviewing people is actually my favorite part of all of this. And I'm sure that's my psychology coming through. Um, and also I would say it's helped me because now I teach how to do podcasting, how to launch, how to grow. And so again, that goes back to my psychology education, but also I used to teach, you know, psychology classes too. So all of those things I've realized, I get to do what I used to love, but just in this new world of podcasting.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

I love that. Yeah, my doctorate is in music, but it totally applies in this build too. So I think that's something that the people out there can listen to and understand, even if you don't have a background in this. The background you do have can be applied to different businesses. Now, you spent almost 20 years in higher education working in accreditation assessment and institutional research before the pandemic, you know, shut everything down and went ahead and jumpstarted you into podcasting, which is what you do now. What was it like losing that work identity that you'd built so long? Because I know a lot of entrepreneurs out there, they're coming from a different background. And it might be due to job loss, it might be due to something health-wise, like your instance. How did that affect you? And how did you rediscover what truly lit you up?

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Oh my gosh, such a good question. And it's so funny.

Letting Go Of A Work Identity

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yesterday on on Instagram, I saw somebody post about this this work identity or career identity when you leave a longtime career and do something different. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's what it is. And I struggled. It was really hard, you know. I thought I'd be in higher education all of my life. I I loved it. I always kind of went back to it, even if I tried something different for a little while. I've always loved learning and teaching. 2020, I will not, it was a very hard year, you know, for a lot of us. I was home alone. My husband was working, he's a carpenter, so he was at the school getting ready to set everything up for when they came back. And it was hard. I definitely lost a part of me. But then I started realizing as I was podcasting and connecting with people online that this space of online coaching, business, entrepreneurship, and podcasting really let me be my full self. I think I was always kind of like two people. There was career Julie and, you know, home family Julie. They didn't always include each other. And um, you know, and working in higher ed, there were certain rules, certain dress codes a lot of us had to wear because we were in, you know, faculty or administration. Um, but now I'm in this world where I get to kind of fully be me and show up with my pink wall and my animal pictures behind me and a bedazzled, you know, headband. Not that I couldn't have worn this to work, but it's this thing where I've realized that part of what I was looking for was a way to kind of marry all parts of me and show up fully as myself. And that has really come through podcasting and talking to people and sharing more of my own story. So it's been an evolution, but it definitely was hard to kind of let go of Dr. Julie and that old, you know, world and the way things work there, which is very different than the online space.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Oh, 100%. 100%. And I have to say I don't miss it.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

So yeah, there's lots of things that I always think to myself, gosh, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with all the politics.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

I went from teaching full-time at a university to I still teach part-time, but online. So it's a it's a little bit different. Now, like me with my cancer diagnosis, you've been really open about having health issues, and you just mentioned how that intense commuting stress like really forced you to make some changes. How did this realization push you to finally prioritize your health, your happiness, and your creativity at this point in your life? What brought you there?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

You know, it's definitely again an evolution. I've dealt with health chronic health issues since I was 12. And so I've always kind of had to manage. And there have been times where I'm good, and other times where I have to kind of give up something. But it actually started a couple years before COVID.

Health First Building A Flexible Business

SPEAKER_00 7:25

I, at 40, was diagnosed with kidney disease on top of other issues I already had. So I was forced to take a couple months off and really deal with that and figure out how to manage it. Um, and then my dad passed away, which was another big change. And so it was between those kind of things and then other issues where I actually ended up having it, having to have a hysterectomy in 2019. So those two years before was a lot of ups and downs and leaving jobs, losing jobs because I just couldn't do it anymore. And I've always had to kind of do that is manage my energy, but I really realized the commuting, especially. I was living out of a suitcase. I was often renting a room or an apartment, depending on where I was working, and being gone all week and only being home on the weekends. So it was also hard on my marriage and just everything. And so I knew that last year or so that something had to change. It was just hard, as you know, to let go of something you're used to that you love. But I knew that I couldn't keep that up and my body was telling me that. So now getting to work from home and for the most part, I can make my own hours when I want to. I can go take a nap or a break or whatever I need to. It's such a huge difference. And also, you know, I think mentally I was made me a little stuck. I wasn't in love with this work I was doing as much as I had been. And when I got into being an entrepreneur and running my own business, I was like, oh, there's so much opportunity, but also options. And I get to find out what inspires me and lights me up. And podcasting was one of those things that really did that for me. And I get to express myself, meet amazing people, and that creativity, like you said, is made a huge difference in enjoying working versus dreading it.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

I love that, and that's such an inspiration. And I don't know anybody who wants to live out of a suitcase. You want to be home with your family, spending time with the pets, right? Yes. No, you mentioned entrepreneurship and owning your own business. Why do you think business owners need a podcast?

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Such a good question. So I will always start with this. I'm not a podcast pusher. I do not think every person with a business needs a podcast, but they should be tapping into podcasting in some way, hosting, guesting, sponsoring. But for people who are really serious about growing their business and finding

Why Podcasts Beat Algorithms

SPEAKER_00 10:02

new ways to reach people to kind of grow their visibility and their expertise, that's where podcasts can be super handy. Um, as you know, you know, we have no control over social media and the algorithms and whoopsies what, even if they follow us. And also a lot of people are staying off social media because there's just so much negativity and noise there now. And emails, you know, again, we can do our best emails, but do people read them? Do they see them? All of that. And so why I love podcasting is you can put out whatever you want to at any moment. There's no rules. I could post every day, I could post once a month. It's up to me. But we also get to evolve with our clients or potential clients. And so, unlike writing a book that's kind of stuck in however we create it, podcasting is always changing and we can talk about whatever we want in a given day, but it also allows you to really react to what your clients are asking for or what people are asking you about. So, in my world of helping people launch, when they talk about they're really stuck on the why and how to measure success and what does that look like, I can hop on my podcast and talk about it and you know, put that content everywhere because I'm seeing people ask it. So as a business owner, you get to really respond in the moment, in what people ask you about or telling you they need help with. And it is just such a great way to deeply connect, whether you're, I mean, audio alone is such a connective experience. You know, they're choosing to put us in their headphones or in their car stereo. And you can build a lot, you know, really strong connection that way. And it's important for business owners to be able to do that, even, you know, even though you may be other places, there's a I've found there's a deeper connection when you're building um through your podcast.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yes, yes. Now, say a business owner out there wants to start a podcast, but they don't they don't even know where to start. They're clueless. What advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 12:06

My first thing would be, well, first I would ask them, have you been a guest? Before we jump into our own show, have you been guesting? If that's a no, okay, stop what you're doing, get on some podcasts and see if you even like it. I never want

Guest First Then Define The Why

SPEAKER_00 12:21

people to devote time and energy to something they don't even know if they're gonna enjoy. Um, and then the second thing is if they have guested or they've started to, I would say, okay, now why do you want a podcast? And I think that's something a lot of people missed. What I just need one for my business, or I should have one because everyone else has one, or so-and-so told me I I need to have a podcast. Okay, great. But why? What do you want to do with it? What's the purpose? Because you really have to be clear on are you just looking, you know, to grow your visibility? Are you looking to create a community around it? Are you looking to promote something specific? Because that helps you then decide what are you going to talk about? How are you gonna measure if people, you know, are if it's successful and people like it and all of those things. So for me, it's always have you even tried it? Have you guessed it? Have you seen what that feels like? But also, second, really clearly on why do you want to do this? And of course, most of us in business will say to make money or to find more clients. But I really try to help people understand like the basics of what's a main goal you have to put yourself out there in that way. And then we kind of I would help them build around that. But those are always the first two things I ask anybody who mentions a podcast to me.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Great. Yeah, and I also saw when I was preparing for this interview that you just mentioned guesting and you advise prospective podcasters to be a guest on at least three shows before starting their own. Can you explain why this is the best free market research, really, and how it helps creators figure out if their energy is going to be better suited for solo episodes or interviews?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Absolutely. So, first off, you know, guesting helps you to see what the process is. But one of the reasons I say at least three is because, as you know, we all do this differently. Our format is different, question how we do it, how we prepare. And so I want people, I really want people to see the variety and how it looks different for each host and how they handle it and how they do their questions. Um, but also to see if you enjoy it. So, and again, it is market research. What does this feel like? How are these hosts using their podcast? You can really kind of dive into what they're doing and then decide what's right for you. When it comes to deciding solo versus interviews, you know, formatting, I always tell people, especially if you are building this for your business, which is what we're talking about, you have to do solos because the solos is where people really get to know you, get to know what you do, how you do it, how you help people, and also build that personal connection. And, you know, I heard somebody say this at a conference once that you don't need sponsors, you're the sponsor. Your business is the sponsor of your podcast. So if all you're doing is interviewing other people, you're not talking about your business. You're letting them talk about theirs or whatever they're promoting. So it's so important to do solos, but guest episodes like this are also important because that expands your listener pool. Like it's you introduced to new networks of people because like this episode I'll share. So people in my world will get to know, you know, Tanjan's um podcast and and learn about her. So both of those are really important, but deciding which one or how much of it, you know, really does depend on your business and what your purpose is.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Okay, so what I'm hearing is it's for most business owners, having a hybrid with a lot of solo and a few interviews is probably the best plan. So what if that business owner says, I don't know that I can talk for 30 minutes? I don't know that I can talk on a topic for 30 minutes. Um, or what if what if I stumble over my words? What advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Well, I will say first, you'll be surprised. A lot of us think that, and then we start talking. And if it's something we are love and are passionate about and love to help people with, I have found 20 or 30 minutes is actually not that hard. But, you know, there's a lot of things to think about. Again, you don't have to do 30 minutes. Maybe some people are comfortable with five-minute episodes or 10-minute episodes, or, you know, maybe taking a list of 10 things you should know about your business, whatever you help people with, and do a short episode on each one. So I always tell people to think about outlining your topics, what would work, what would people want to hear about, and then keep breaking them down so you can really drill down and get lots of content, but also ask like what are the frequently asked questions you get all the time on social, in email, or just when you meet new people and use those questions to create content because if people are asking you how to do something, then obviously they're looking for support in that, and you should create episodes around that.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Well, that's such a smart strategy. What are your thoughts on video format versus audio only?

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Oh gosh, this is such a debate right now, I think, in podcasting, and some people have very strong opinions. Uh, I started as audio only. I did not use the videos for the first year or so. I'm not even sure now. Um, I think a lot of people think it as

Audio Vs Video Plus Hosting

SPEAKER_00 17:43

either or when it's really and. So part of it is where are you right now? Do you have a YouTube channel? Are you using it? Because if you already have an existing channel, it's kind of a no-brainer to add your video podcast there, right? Why not? You already have the space. But if you don't have anything there and you want to start with audio, that's great too. The thing about audio podcasts is they build a deep connection because it's that audio connection. Some people want to stick true to that, what I call a traditional podcast, an audio only. But a lot of people are like, well, I don't want to miss out on people who are going to video on YouTube or other places. So I always tell people that if you have a channel, if it makes sense for you to use it, then record in video, edit in video, and then you could use it in both video and audio only. But if video is brand new to you, you don't really have a lot of experience there, don't add it to your plate. Start where you're comfortable, start where you already are. And if audio is easier and more comfortable for you, then do that and then check yourself in three to six months and see how it feels if you want to do it. I don't want anyone to take on too much, but it really, I really push for where are you already? Even like when my clients launch. What's the one platform social-wise that you spend the most time? Great. Spend all your time talking about your launch there. So you have one place and you're not overwhelmed by posting in 10 places as you launch your show. So for me, it's really being what makes the most sense, what's most strategic, but also what is going to allow someone to really be able to launch and keep continue to be consistent with their podcast.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

I love that that idea of it. And and for me, it was no-brainer. I was already on YouTube before my podcast started. So definitely put it on there. And you know, we all record these things on video format anyway, so why not use that footage to reach another audience? But I understand some people may be a little less comfortable on camera, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

But not to over you can still send your audio only just with the image to YouTube. I do both kind of as a test. And so I've noticed that some I get views on both, the non-video one and the video version on my YouTube. Because I know for me, when I'm on YouTube, sometimes it's playing in the background while I'm working, so I'm not even looking at the video. So people will do both. And so I just I think it's important for people to not take on too much because video and video editing can be a whole new skill, and that's a lot, that's a learning curve. And I see a lot of people struggle with that. So do what works for you. That's my biggest takeaway.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yes, I love that. Now, when it comes to getting the podcast out there, obviously with YouTube, you just upload it to YouTube. What platforms do you recommend for people who want to start podcasting as a way to get it out there? Because I know that's what a lot of people have questions about. That's what I had questions about when I first started. How do I get it delivered? Do I have to go to Apple Podcasts and upload it? Do I have to go to Spotify and upload it? What do I need to do?

SPEAKER_00 20:59

So, this is a question too, I think, especially people new to podcasting in general have no idea how that happens, right? I didn't understand it, and I still do, but um, so you have to have a podcast host, and that is a platform where you create your content, you upload your episodes, they get you set up in all the directories and send it out there. And the two that I recommend the most that I use are BuzzSprout and RSS.com. I've been testing out different ones just to see because I hear things about all these hosting platforms. I'm like, what is there? I've been with Buzz Sprout for many years and I love it. It's very easy to use, it is not super expensive at all. They give you a lot of extras, they have a great community, they're always sending content out to help you grow. So I really love them, and that's where a lot of my brand new podcasters start because it's super easy to use and understand. Um, I do like rss.com, it's really great too. They have a lot of great features. They also allow you to monetize at just 10 downloads. You can start add adding in ads to your podcast through their platform. So I love that hosts have little bits of differences and you can find one that fits you best. But yeah, for audio only to get out there in all those apps, you have to have a host and you have to just get your podcast set up with them so you can start sending it to all of those places.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

I love that. And and I'm I'm with you, Buzzsprout, that's what we use. It's super easy, super easy to use. And lots of bells and whistles. I'll put a link to it in the description if anybody's interested. Now, kind of to start winding things up a little bit, I know that you've advocated that it's better to start messy than to wait to be perfect. So, could you share one of your most embarrassing podcast moments or tech fails and what that experience taught you about flexibility and growth in entrepreneurship?

Messy Starts Guest Pitching Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Oh my goodness. I have so many tech fumble stories. Just yesterday, for some reason, my keyboard decided to stop communicating and I had to unplug my mic and I'm like, wait, why do I not have enough spots for all these things? It's it can be overwhelming. Um, but for me, definitely when I first started, I recorded on Zoom, I used the audio, I didn't really edit. I have had some, especially with the pet podcast, because pets are welcome, but we've had some pretty funny interruptions by animals like, hey, you're not paying attention to me. I've had, you know, cat butts walk across people's screens. Um, one of my episodes was crazy. We had dogs barking, we had kids interrupting us. It was just a mess. But you know what I found out is people like that because that's real. And even now in the world of AI, leaving in umms or mistakes here and there is actually good because then people know we're we're real and we're actual humans. So, what a lot of that in the early days of podcasting taught me is to just go with the flow. People are there to connect, to learn, to be entertained. So you don't have to take all of that that out and be, you know, perfect. They actually like the normal and that it's messy and things get messed up in the moment, even while you're recording.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Yes, and that's one of my favorite parts about COVID. If there can be a favorite part about the pandemic, is you saw everyone working from home and pets making an appearance or little kids like doing bunny ears and stuff. Because it does, it makes you human, and everybody can relate to that. I was trying to film a YouTube video earlier today, and my cat decided to try to climb the wall and fell and knocked over the tripod. It it happens. I'm sure my editor will make sure that that jumps up as a blooper.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yes. My cats love to jump up where my mouse is or my keyboard is, so I can't do anything until I pet them.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Nothing like a little purring into the microphone.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

So if someone is out there and they're like, okay, podcasting, this is something I want to try. And I know that she she told me I need to guest first. But how do I do that? How do I get people to invite me on their podcast to guest?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

So there's a couple ways, but I always start with do some research. What type of podcast would you be a good fit for? You know, what topic, what niche, whatever that may be. And I always tell people to do some searching on ListenNotes. Listennotes.com is a podcast directory. So pretty much all active podcasts are listed there. And you can search by keyword, by um, by category, by name, all sorts of things. And it gives you a lot of data about podcasts. So you can really get a sense of okay, what is this podcast about? Who is it for? And the who it's for is really important. Think about who your ideal client or person you want to reach is, and then do the research to find podcasts that they're likely listening to. So that's kind of the first step. The second step is, of course, listen. Please listen. Don't pitch yourself without listening. I know I'm sure you do too. Get DMs and emails every day. Hello, sir, madam. Okay. Or I even get ones where the podcast name isn't even right. I'm like, guys, you didn't even copy and paste the right name for this one. So please listen and reference their podcast. A episode you listened to, you loved, a topic you're like, oh, I loved how you talk about this. I would love to come on and talk about this from my perspective. You know, really look at that and connect with them. Listen, follow the host and the podcast on social, interact with them. Don't just do cold reach outs because those are a lot less likely to be responded to. Um, but if you're looking for maybe a more regular podcast guesting, I always recommend PodMatch. I use that as both a host and a guest. And it's only $6 a month to put yourself on there, um, depending on what you're doing, up to six to 30, I think is their range. But what I love about that is the podcast pages will tell you what topics they talk about, who their listeners are, you know, what the flow of the podcast is. So, I mean, ultimately what I'm saying is do your research. Don't just start, you know, oh, this name of this podcast sounds like it's a good fit. Let me email them. Because names of podcasts don't always tell you everything. So do your research, listen, and reach out, go to their website. A lot of podcasters have a link on their website to apply to be a guest. So use the the means that they present. And if there aren't any, then contact them. But be really, you know, connecting. Don't just pit yourself right away. Tell them what you like, what you enjoy, and how you might be a good guest for their show.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Such good advice. And I did not know about those resources. I'm gonna have to look into those myself. Great. So I've always done it the hard old-fashioned way. Just go to go to a podcast platform and start Googling or, you know, searching keywords, start listening to podcasts, find the ones I'm a good fit for. But I love having a couple of tools to make that happen.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah, I really, you know, I used to be, as you said earlier, I used to be a researcher. I love data. And so list of notes is free. Anybody can search it. It's basically just a Google for podcasts, but it gives you data you can't really see in apps, which it tells you when the show started, how often they put out episodes, how long the episodes are, do they have guests, and it also ranks. So you've heard people say top 5%, top 2%. It actually has those numbers on the dashboard. So you can see very quickly is this a brand new podcast? Has it been around? Is it popular? And that's data you can't always see when we're just listening in one of the apps.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Gotcha, gotcha. So now that you've convinced everybody that they need to be guesting on podcast or they need to start their own, to that person starting out who's a little bit scared, but they're ready to take that leap like you did. What is one piece of advice you would give them?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Such a good thing. I would say one thing is realistic expectations. I do think people think, I'm gonna put it out there and it's just gonna be, it's just gonna grow and it's gonna be great. It's like, yes, that can happen. But let's be realistic about like maybe let's set an achievement of a certain number of downloads in your first month, and then you see if you get there. Like, don't expect this massive. I know I would check my downloads so much when I first started, and now I'm like, eh, I'll look at them once in a while when I want to look at data, but really don't focus on that. Focus on what you want to share and the stories and the content you want to give people, make that be your purpose and not the downloads or how you're gonna grow and all of that. Um, and just give yourself grace. You know, we're all starting off new. When we get into podcasting, you have to, you know, try it and change it. And the great thing is, is you can change anything at any time. If you decide you hate your cover image or need a different title or want to change this or that, it's okay. So just start off knowing this is where I'm starting and I'm ready to learn and grow as we go down this path.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Excellent. Excellent. Yes, because it takes time to get good at anything and it takes practice and it takes reps. And your your first few are gonna be cringy, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

That's totally fine. And also, you know, ask for help. It doesn't have to be professional help like me coaching you. But if you know someone that's been podcasting, ask them the questions or, you know, find places to get support and accountability. That's what I do in my membership, is you know, everybody's at their own pace and how much time they have to give to podcasting. So I try to just help, you know, nudge them, give them the little boost they need and support they need. So I think, you know, really finding people to get feedback from, to have them listen to your first few and give you constructive feedback is important because podcasting can be lonely. Uh, you know, especially we feel like we're kind of talking to the void and we don't really get a reaction back. So it's always nice to ask friends or colleagues and say, hey, this is what I'm doing. What do you think? You know, listen, share, help me out in the early days.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Great, great advice. So say they've listened to you now and they're like, Yes, I I want Julie to help me. How can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yeah, you can find all of my upcoming events. I do free workshops and networking every month, plus my podcast launch programs and other exciting things going on on my website, julymartypearson.com. You can also find my podcast there too if you want to take a listen.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

Awesome. And I will be sure to link that down below. Julie, thank you so much for coming on today. It's been such a pleasure to talk with you, and you've given us such invaluable information. Thank you so much for having me. So get out there, start your podcast, pitch a podcast, start building your visibility, and keep planning like a boss.